Grad School In My Late 30s: “The Best Thing I’ve Ever Done For My Career”

Everyone follows their own path for education, and some paths take more twists and turns than others. Not sure where your education is taking you? It can help to see how things went for other people who have been there.

When David B. was in high school, he wasn’t sure he’d go to college at all. Spoiler: He did, but it took a long time. When he was 38, he went back for more, and got a master’s degree. More than a few years after that, he shared his experience with Aaron Weber.

So, what’s your academic story?

I barely finished high school. I was in and out of community college for about 4 years until I was able to transfer to a 4-year college, where I floundered around for way too long trying this major or that major before I just ran out of money and had to quit.

Almost 10 years later, I went back to finish my BA. I enrolled at UC-Irvine and picked the major that would get me graduated as quickly as possible, which turned out to be social sciences.

I was lucky to graduate into a strong economy, and I had some design sense and computer skills, so I wound up as a graphic designer. I found work at the University of Southern California, which meant I got to take steeply discounted graduate-level classes. There, I discovered more or less by accident that RIT, way over in Rochester, NY, had an MS program in graphic arts and printing. At that time, it was the only program of its kind in the country.

I applied on a whim and got in.

How’d you pay for grad school?

I was 38 when I started, and I moved to Rochester from Los Angeles a year in advance to settle in, get a job, and save some money. It was important to me to work the whole time—not just so I could pay for it, but so I could practice what I was learning.

I paid for it by cashing in my meager 403(b) from USC, taking out a regular student loan, and borrowing some money from a friend. At the time, I still had undergrad student loan debt, which I deferred while in grad school. I managed to pay the whole sum off in about 5 or 6 years, partly through selling my house.

How did it work out for you?

The degree has definitely been the best thing I’ve ever done for my career. I work in print training and machinery management now—helping people set up and operate their giant industrial presses and so forth. These days, it’s a shrinking profession, and having the degree definitely has helped me stand out.

Right now, I’m 51. If I didn’t have this degree, I’d probably be a press operator looking over my shoulder and worrying about layoffs. It was a huge risk to move across the country to study when I was already pushing 40, but it went really well for me and I’m glad I did it.

Any parting words for younger folks leaving college today?

I’m so sorry that you are entering your working years in such a terrible economy. Take whatever work you can get that is within your threshold of dignity, but never below it. Save your money. Be kind and support each other. Do not suffer fools or whiners.

Elsewhere

I’ve been reviewing a number of books over at Bookdwarf.com. Most recently I talked up my friend Patrick’s impressions of BMW-enthusiast mechanical guide/memoir Memoirs of a Hack Mechanic and Margaret Atwood’s MaddAddam. Somewhat earlier, I read about the nexus of sugar, slaves, and industrialization in Sweetness and Power and was fascinated by a revealing take on ocean shipping in 90 Percent of Everything.

Why I Went To Culinary School: An Interview With A Cook

Culinary degrees and culinary careers are hot right now. They’re on TV with things like Master Chef, Top Chef,and The American Baking Competition. Celebrity chefs like Mario Batali and Emeril Lagasse are the old guard by now, and hip new guys like David Chang and Eddie Huang serve up foul-mouthed, back-of-the-house street cred.

But culinary school is incredibly expensive, especially for a career with notoriously low pay, terrible hours, and incredibly long odds of becoming a superstar. What are culinary school and a real cook’s job actually like?

Aaron Weber interviewed a recent culinary grad to talk money, knife skills, and career trajectory.

What Made You Decide To Attend Culinary School?

For the better part of a decade, I’d been working in restaurants and food-service places around Boston. I was a barista for a while, but the overwhelming majority of these jobs were prep-cook jobs: I would be given a very specific task or set of tasks, and be told how to perform them.

I didn’t get to pick tasks, or pick recipes, or decide how or when or how much of something to do. Sometimes the chefs would ask my opinion, or I’d figure out a better way of doing something on my own through trial and error instead of a solid background in the basics. I was doing culinary things, but I didn’t really understand what I was doing or why.

The best job I had was as a kitchen manager, which set me up pretty well for school. That job involved the bulk of basic kitchen skills that later education would vamp.

At that point, I decided that it would be not only useful, but just plain enjoyable to hone my skills further. If I knew what I was doing, I’d be able to work more for myself and move up higher in the ranks. Plus, I’m a musician, and food seemed like a compatible and realistic way to actually make a living. Playing a gig late one night wouldn’t interfere with my schedule the next day.

Also, cooks are in high demand and there’s no shortage of jobs, so if I wanted to go on tour for a few months I wouldn’t have to worry so much about finding work when I got back. All of these things combined made the choice to attend school pretty clear.

How Did You Choose Your School?

I toured Le Cordon Bleu, and I think I looked very briefly at the Culinary Institute of America, but eventually decided to attend Cambridge School of Culinary Arts.

LCB required a regular academic program as part of its curriculum, but I’ve already been to college and I didn’t need to do it again. Both LCB and the CIA are also very long programs, while CSCA is a more fast-paced, intensive program. So the schedule was definitely in favor of CSCA.

I also spoke with a few chefs around town, and they said it was a good school and they respected it, as well, so I knew it wasn’t some fly-by-night operation.

How’d You Pay For It?

It was not cheap or convenient, I’ll tell you that.

CSCA is accredited, but it is not part of federal student aid programs and it doesn’t have much financial aid. There’s an essay-based scholarship sponsored by alumni and the Wusthof knife company, and that paid for my knife kit. That saved me around a thousand dollars.

Half of the tuition I borrowed as a private loan from Sallie Mae. I didn’t want a co-signer or guarantor. I’ve done that in the past and felt like it was a nightmare, so I went back and forth with them on the amount until they had a number they’d loan me without anyone else co-signing.

The rest, I put on a credit card. I don’t recommend it to everyone, but it worked for me. The school let me pay quarterly, and by the time I’d hit two payments, my credit limit on one of my credit cards was high enough that I could charge the rest. It was basically all money I didn’t have, but luckily I stayed on track, consolidated bills when the rates were low enough, kept up with payments, and managed to finish paying off the whole thing in a year.

After Graduation, How Hard Was It To Find Work?

It was shockingly easy. CSCA’s staff pool and class sizes are so small that everybody knows everybody. The career placement counselor and I became friends, and she was fantastic about being available to help me with ideas, résumé advice, and even making personalized phone calls to vouch for me. As long as I was working hard in school and keeping realistic expectations about steps on my journey, she was right there to extend her services.

As things were winding down and graduation was on the horizon, I decided I would apply for my “reach” job and see what happened. The woman in career services went out of her way to call human resources at the hotel where I was applying and tell them about me. One of the instructors at our school had worked there, and he also spoke on my behalf. I staged (that’s French for an internship or working interview) and was hired a week later.

My title was line cook II, and that was a pretty big step. Usually, at least at this place, you’d work prep, then be promoted to the cold station (garde manger or salad). After that, you’d be eligible to be promoted to the hot line, and after about a year on the hot line, you can be considered for a promotion to line cook II. I hadn’t worked a hot line or cooked things to order that much before, so having the degree definitely helped me move up the ranks more quickly.

How Did It Pay?

The pay was much better than I’d grown accustomed to. Most kitchen work I’d done had paid $10 per hour with no benefits. This new position paid $14.25 an hour and included health insurance and paid time off. You don’t see those kinds of things in most food jobs, but as part of a large hotel, my employer was big enough to offer them.

The work itself was very, very intense. You ever shuck an oyster? You ever shuck 800 oysters in one evening and make sure they’re all exactly right, no chips of shell, no grit, no imperfections? You’re working shift after shift, no social life, 12 hours a pop. Conveniently, I had no opportunity to spend any of the money I was making, which helped pay those loans off faster.

And I can’t lie to you: This job is painful. For the first 6 months, I looked like I’d lost a knife fight every day. There were horrible burns and cuts all over my arms. You slice a knuckle, superglue it shut, bandage it, and go back to the line. Then you reach into the oven and get a pan of duck too quickly and hot duck fat sloshes across your hands, frying the spot you just cut. Then you have to finish your shift.

I worked there for about 18 months. It wasn’t easy, but it was exhilarating.

What Are You Doing Career-Wise Now?

The next step for me was to find a groove more in tune with my original path before culinary school. Sometimes people forget where they’re really going once they start down the road.

Right now, I’m working at a school in the culinary arts program’s kitchen for the summer. We cook for the teachers, admins, and kids using much of what I learned working in catering. After this summer, I’ll be looking to move on to the next chapter, whatever that may be.

That’s the beauty of being a cook: there’s always something out there waiting for you.

I interviewed a line cook about culinary school

From the SALT blog:
Culinary degrees and culinary careers are hot right now. They’re on TV with things like Master Chef, Top Chef, and The American Baking Competition. Celebrity chefs like Mario Batali and Emeril Lagasse are the old guard by now, and hip new guys like David Chang and Eddie Huang serve up foul-mouthed, back-of-the-house street cred.

But culinary school is incredibly expensive, especially for a career with notoriously low pay, terrible hours, and incredibly long odds of becoming a superstar. What are culinary school and a real cook’s job actually like?

Read the rest of the interview here.

Arbitrage Opportunity Alert

Ta-Nehisi Coates points out that the editors and writers from the National Review (no, i won’t link to it) think that young black men are likely to be criminals. This sounds like an opportunity for middle-aged white women to rob them blind. THEY WILL NEVER SUSPECT A THING. IT’S THE PERFECT CRIME.

Wait, is this basically the plot of The Bling Ring? In which case, never mind.

3 Things Top-Tier Law Students Get Wrong About Money

I spoke with a financial aid officer at a top-ten law school a few months ago and wrote a piece for the SALT blog about it. It’s a basic description of common financial mistakes and ways to avoid them.

1. They Don’t Read Contracts Before Signing Them
Yes, even while passing their contracts courses, they sign things without reading them. One student came in to financial aid to ask for extra money because she hadn’t paid her electric bill all year—and owed $4,000.

Her lease specified that electricity was her responsibility, but she hadn’t read the lease, and her landlord hadn’t told her. Others sign important documents and then don’t keep copies, or don’t file them somewhere organized enough to find them again later.

How You Can Be Smarter

Double-check. Ask questions. Get answers in writing. Read documents before you file them away.

And get a file cabinet or at least a box with some folders in it. You may live in a digital era, but some paper documents you need to be able to find without Google.

2. They Don’t Match Their Spending To Their Income

Students who go straight from undergraduate life to law school are making all the same mistakes of early adulthood that others do. But they’re doing it without an income. They spend all the money they have. They eat out instead of cooking at home. They try to keep up with their income-earning friends, and they borrow too much money to pay for it.

You’d expect people who have a few years of life experience to do better, but they don’t. They are reducing their incomes to go back to school, but they are reluctant to go back to living like students again.

Both groups know they need to network and meet up with other students and participate in extracurricular activities. But those things can get expensive. Cutting everything out isn’t really an option, and it’s genuinely difficult to pick the right balance.

How You Can Be Smarter

This one takes practice. Get used to saying, “I’d love to, but that’s not in my budget.”

And spend some time looking for affordable alternatives you can suggest for student social events. For example, instead of expensive opera tickets, look into free nights at museums, book readings, or gallery openings. If your local sports team is expensive, check the minor leagues (you can get better seats anyway). If someone suggests a wine tasting, try doing it at someone’s house instead of a restaurant. You get the idea.

3. They’re Overwhelmed

There’s laundry and homework and dinner and all of life’s usual tasks, and getting your personal financial life under control demands uninterrupted time and energy. It’s even harder if you have additional family responsibilities, which is more common for graduate students.

Taking the time to gather all your financial information into one place—whether it’s a spreadsheet or Mint.com or another tool—requires some setup. But it’s important.

How You Can Be Smarter
Make an appointment with yourself and get a good look at your money. How much do you have, and how much do you owe? How much will the payments be? When will they be due?

If you’re not sure, make an appointment with the financial aid office at your school, and go over those numbers with them. Spend a few minutes a week tracking your spending and income, and you’ll be far less likely to run into unpleasant surprises.

Anil Dash is pretty clever

Anil Dash has a list of 10 internet laws that seem pretty accurate.

They all have exceptions, of course. Like Rule 8: When a company or industry is facing changes to its business due to technology, it will argue against the need for change based on the moral importance of its work, rather than trying to understand the social underpinnings.

Sometimes technological disruption is perfectly legit, and sometimes it’s actually undermining good things. And sometimes it’s both: Unlicensed amateur taxi drivers are not a great idea, but taxi commissions are also corrupt and unhelpful…

I’m not sure where that leads. But the list is definitely a good lens for thinking about business and marketing these days (and probably in the past as well, in most cases).

Is Getting A New Car The Right Choice Financially?

My car is a 10-year-old, 2-door hatch with low mileage and a few scratches. OK, more than a few. Like, zip ties hold part of the grill to the bumper.

Last week, the front passenger seat started flopping forward whenever I hit the brakes. That’s an actual safety hazard, and it means I’ve really got to do something.

But what?

***

Get Rid Of It?
Fewer and fewer people, especially young people, are driving cars at all. They’re expensive, and if you live in a city, you hardly need one. You can always rent one by the hour or for a weekend if you do need it. And you skip all the hassles of parking, maintenance, and gas. The Blue Book says I could get about $4,000 if I sold it, which would buy me a bicycle and a ton of Zipcar and taxi rides.

Fix It?
The cheapest thing is to fix it. I’m spending about $2,000 a year to keep it on the road, but it’s still cheaper to fix than replace. On the other hand, that repair bill isn’t going to get any smaller. If anything major breaks on the car, it won’t even be a decent trade-in.

Replace It?
You can get a perfectly fine base-model econo-box for under $15,000. If I wait until September for the year-end clearance, I could be out the door for not too much over ten grand. I’ve got some money saved up, so I’d barely have to finance anything at all.

Or I could get a certified used car with a warranty. A 2011 or 2010 model would be better than my current car, and I might be able to skip a loan entirely. That’s appealing: Nobody wants ANOTHER loan payment, right?

Upgrade?
Then again, that base model looks pretty chintzy. I don’t need alloy wheels, but I’d like a little more than the minimum. And you know, it’s cold up here in Boston in the winter, and I want those butt-warmers. Maybe a moon roof. And definitely a little more zip to the engine. Sure, Consumer Reports says that turbo models are generally less reliable. But you totally need it for a busy highway merge, right? Besides, VROOOM!

I could even go luxe: You can get a barely used (excuse me, “pre-owned”) baby BMW for $25,000. It comes with luxury-car maintenance and insurance costs, but it is a bimmer.

What Would You Do?
How much extra would you pay to go from adequate transportation to sweet ride? Would you borrow it?

The car dealership would say you can keep monthly payments down if you stretch the term of your loan to 5 or even 7 years. If I listen to them, I’ll be paying for my new car long after it’s no longer new. That’s no bargain at all.

From a purely rational perspective, the only reason to borrow money for a car is if you need it to get to work and have absolutely no alternative. Unlike a college education, a new car isn’t going to increase your earning potential. In fact, it’s bound to be worth less money in the future. But if there’s one thing that I’ve learned about personal finance, it’s that nobody is capable of being totally rational about money all of the time.

Personally, I’m hoping to aim somewhere in the middle: something gently used, with a warranty. I’ll skip the navigation and the engine upgrades, but in my book, those seat warmers are worth every penny.

Marketing’s enthusiast problem

When you think motorcycle rider, you might think of a dentist on a big Harley cruising around on the weekends. But your average motorcyclists live in India or Southeast Asia and have a 250cc or smaller motorbike as the primary transportation for their household. The American motorcycle market consists almost entirely of enthusiasts, and they’re visible. But manufacturers, if they want to sell anything in volume, need to keep the meat of the market in their sights.

Automakers have a similar enthusiast problem: Their most dedicated fans are not, in fact, their best customers. And focusing on their most enthusiastic customers can lead them into serious trouble.

Honda, for a while, wanted to be the cool car company. So they made some cool cars, and they courted the aftermarket tuner crowd. The next thing you know, their brand was tainted by things like this:

Your typical driver is not a car enthusiast. Your typical driver has an appliance that takes them places. Jalopnik and the other car media may hate beige, but the enthusiasts are merely the most vocal segment of the market. If the average driver buys a car magazine, it’s the Consumer Reports car issue. And they only buy that when they’re in the market for a new car.

When you look for the enthusiast problem, you see it everywhere. Home electronics, video games, PCs, you name it. The enthusiast audience thinks it’s the real audience. In many cases, the industry leaders are enthusiasts themselves – that’s why they went into the industry, after all. But that means they often fail to understand that their audience doesn’t love their products the same way they do.

The average college student is not a 19-year-old fraternity brother. The average video-game player is not playing FPS games on a console and drinking Mountain Dew. The average car-buyer is not looking for an engaging drive. The average PC buyer is not actually chasing clock speed.

Obviously, you need to know your customers. And when you think you really understand them, you’re probably wrong.

If I Default, Can They Repossess My Education?

Wherever you work, there are bound to be people taping or tacking cartoons to the walls. Sometimes they’re just funny stuff, but more often than not it’s something related to your job.

At my desk, I recently took down the Toothpaste for Dinner comic about applying autotune to your loans, and put up one by Emily Flake about what happens when the student loan people come to repo your BA.

***

These comics are silly, but I like them, because they point out just how hard it is to really get your mind around a loan—especially when most of the money went straight to your school and you never actually touched it.

I mean, you might be able to recycle a 1980s bassline, but it’s pretty near impossible to turn a 1099-E into a hit R&B single. It’s not at all hard to understand that if you miss car payments the repo man will come and take the car. But what will lenders do about a student loan?

They Can’t Repo Your BA … Can They?

No. They can’t. But there are still some serious consequences if you don’t pay:

  • If it’s a couple days late, send the money and you’ll probably be fine.
  • After 30 days, you’ll be two payments behind, and probably owe a late fee as well.
  • At 60 days, your credit starts to take damage.
  • When you get toward a year late, you can enter default. At that point, things go south quick.

If You’re In Default

The consequences of default are way worse:

  • Your credit damage will be severe. You will find it harder to get a credit card, a lease, a car loan, maybe even a job. (After all, employers may not trust you with their money if they think you can’t handle your own.)
  • You’ll be charged collection costs, generally 18%–25% of the amount you owe.
  • You’ll be charged interest on those collection costs.
  • You’ll be charged interest on your late fees.
  • You’ll be charged interest on your unpaid interest.
  • You could face wage garnishment, i.e., a chunk of your paycheck taken for your loans before you even get paid.
  • Expecting a tax refund or Social Security check? Your loans can take that, too.

 

So, while they can’t take back the education, lenders will get their money one way or another.

If you do default, there are ways to recover, like rehabilitation and consolidation. But trust us, it’s way better to prevent default with a payment plan you can manage.